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By: freebird

I thought it was really important to stop back in here and mention that Alvy Ampersand is totally wrong and perhaps a Servant of some Unholy Twisted Power which Dwelleth in Depths Unplumbed by Mortal...

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By: LeLiLo

I love Ishtar. I went to a sneak preview of the film and it was packed and the audience was howling (as was I). Then the reviews came out, focusing on the budget, and all of a sudden everyone said it...

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By: rleamon

What's left out of this discussion is how you saw the film -- in a movie theater? On VHS? or DVD? I've not seen HG, and have had mixed reactions the 2-3 times I've seen DH, but will say this -- like...

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By: cass

Never been able to sit through "The Deer Hunter." However, I think "Waterworld" is a not as bad as everyone says it is, and it didn't deserve the negativity it received. Sure, it's a bit over-the-top...

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By: ipe

I saw the Z channel documentary last year and on the strength of its focus on the longer cut of Heaven's Gate, I decided to give the film a try. I saw the longer cut. Boy, what a listless, sepia mess....

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By: Mr. Six

I just won an ironic trucker hat and a lifetime subscription to Pitchforkmedia. Hilarious! Thanks for making my morning.

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By: Juggermatt

What filchyboy said. When I first saw the post, my immediate thought was of the cult Heaven's Gate. I'm an idiot.

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By: bardic

You got me Afroblanco. By hating on The Deer Hunter, I just won an ironic trucker hat and a lifetime subscription to Pitchforkmedia. Um, I've seen a lot of movies and I think the movie sucks. What's...

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By: filchyboy

It was really sad when all those Heaven's Gate folk offed themselves. So sad.

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By: Aghast.

the vehemence of the negativity was motivated in part by a sense that the film community felt, in retrospect, that it had over-praised "The Deer Hunter" The critics and my ex-wife behaved similarly...

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By: Alvy Ampersand

Bingo.And OUaTiTW is a bloated, messy, indulgent piece of retch.

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By: intermod

Along with the tangents off over to Stephen Bach's book, William Goldman and the sorry story of United Artists, that's got to be the best 30 minutes I've wasted in a week.

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By: Afroblanco

Wasn't Heaven's Gate later appreciated once the Director's cut became widely available via cable TV? From what I've read, this is pretty much what started the whole "Director's Cut" trend. (whether...

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By: dobbs

True, but that's a different kind of hatred.

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By: bingo

Yeah, but you don't like Egoyan either, so all bets are off. ;)

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By: dobbs

For people who don't usually watch that kind of movie, it may seem like he's trying to keep you excited, and failing, but you have to just relax and understand that it's not that kind of presentation....

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By: bingo

THX-1138 was pretty damn good too.

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By: dobbs

Lucas and the Zoetrope gang Wow. Can't believe you're lumping those together. The Conversation and Godfather I & II are three of the best films of a stellar decade.

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By: bingo

I don't remember any inexplicable Vietnam scenes.

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By: Chuckles

The director (in those early scenes) is not trying to excite you, he's trying to make you absorb the feeling of what it's like to be those people in that place and time. That aspect of Deer Hunter is...

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By: bingo

There's not even "so bad it's good" quality a la Cleopatra. What a weird example. Cleopatra (the version with Elizabeth Taylor, which is the one you linked to) is amazing. Every pseudo-epic of that...

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By: Thorzdad

Now, if you went looking for a war movie, you were probably disappointed. I wasn't. I was looking for something that lived-up to the buzz. Didn't find it. Far from it. Oh well.

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By: slatternus

I tend to side with the camp that believes the 70's were the apex of American filmaking, abruptly brought to an end by the abortion that was Star Wars. American cinema is only now recovering from the...

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By: Rumple

I completely disagree. The Deer Hunter is one of the best movies of the 1970s, which was an outstanding decade for flics. The wedding scene beautifully balances the Vietnam sections, showing just who...

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By: shmegegge

jpowers beat me to it. yeah, heaven's gate is far better than anything you've ever heard about it, unless you've seen that Z Channel documentary from IFC. that's about the only time i've ever seen the...

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By: zardoz

Heaven's Gate is beautiful to watch, though glacially paced. The biggest problem I had was the sound--entire scenes go by in which you can't understand a single word being said by the characters. They...

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By: wrapper

I thought The Deer Hunter was wildly overrated as soon as I saw it in '78 or '79.

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By: PeterMcDermott

I'd just like to reiterate unSane's plug for Steven Bach's book, Final Cut. The book is fascinating even if you've never seen Heaven's Gate (which I hadn't when I first read it.)

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By: Samizdata

After a long disagreement with my father (who I alerted to this thread, despite his non-membership), I agreed to watch the full, unedited version of the film. I was rather embarrassed to admit that the...

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By: tkchrist

I liked Heaven' Gate. Good post.

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By: Man-Thing

Back when I was in film school--a long, long time ago--we watched two versions of Heaven's Gate in class. First the long version, then the shorter version the studio released. The long version did look...

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By: JPowers

"Z Channel: A Magnificent Obsession," a brilliant documentary, covers the story of "Heaven's Gate" in fascinating detail. I highly recommend it to any fellow film nuts.

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By: ssmith

And since we're talking about the Deer Hunter here... I just saw it for the first time about a month ago, and I have to agree about the wedding scene. But was the Vietnamese Russian Roulette suicide...

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By: Thorzdad

And yeah, add me to the "Deer Hunter's fucking boring" crowd. Ditto that. Never have I spent a longer, more miserable three hours than I did in the 45 minutes I spent trying to watch that god-awful...

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By: hwestiii

bardic writes - So I've actually tried to watch it--and lord, is it godawful. The dance scenes in particular. There's not even "so bad it's good" quality a la Cleopatra. hwestiii replies - like I said,...

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By: blucevalo

Wow, dobbs makes Ishtar sound positively horrible. In the best possible way. Now I must see it.

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By: dobbs

You know, Ishtar really wasn't that bad either. I love Ishtar. I went to a sneak preview of the film and it was packed and the audience was howling (as was I). Then the reviews came out, focusing on...

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By: Chuckles

I'm with you bardic. I just watched it for the first time a week or so ago after intending to see it a million times over the years. Not terrible, but nothing special. Camino's style is interesting...

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By: bardic

(And as long as I'm tossing around the Haterade, ya know what film really hasn't aged well? The Deer Hunter. I saw it again last year and realized what bothered me most--I had no f'ing sympathy for any...

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By: Rashomon

And then came Howard the Duck!

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By: bardic

hwestiii writes: In reality, "Heaven's Gate" is a far better film than one would guess from the controversy it stirred up when it was first released in the 80's. You aren't the only person who's told...

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By: goatdog

I saw this restored on the big screen last year. It's astounding. Not entirely coherent, but excellent nonetheless.

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By: ROU_Xenophobe

maybe if they have a double feature of the director's cuts of Dune The long version of Dune isn't a director's cut, it's just longer. Well, I suppose you could argue that the relevant Alan Smithee...

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By: Aghast.

Seeing as Waterworld is one of my favorites -- the contraptions on his boat alone were worth the price of admission as was the vision of another Earth -- Heaven's Gate might be just my speed. Thanks Ogre.

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By: freebird

It actually sounds like a pretty interesting - if self-indulgent - movie. But then, I think Once Upon A Time in the West is an incredible movie...

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By: Johnny Assay

It was also called Fishtar. You know, Ishtar really wasn't that bad either. At the very least, you have some wonderful casting against type, and some hilariously bad lounge music, and who doesn't want...

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By: StickyCarpet

Waterworld was called Kevin's Gate It was also called Fishtar.

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By: blucevalo

fuck movies. you people watch far too many of them. And alas, Hollywood just keeps churning the suckers out.

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By: mischief

now queued up in Netflix

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By: boo_radley

Good post, Ogre Lawless

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